Used Instruments

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20 juni 2008 11:26 #116 by Martin Künkler
Used Instruments was created by Martin Künkler
Why are used Horns or other instruments are so expensiv in the States or in UK?
If I read the advertisings in this forum or e.g. from sellers, who takes advertisings at the Horn Call, I notice, that the priceideas are very high.
Sure, a really good horn, may be 40 years old single Bb, made by a good and wellknown craftsman and in top condition is a fine instrument! But in Germany it makes arround 800,- to 1000,-€ = 1200,- to 1500,- Bucks. But only, if it IS in top condition and without any conversions and inclusiv a bag. Who will pay those extremly high prices? A young student (his/her parents) will never spend so much money for such an old horn. They dont know, wether the child will ending the education or not! A brandnew Yamaha or Hoyer single Bb ist available for 1400,- € if the seller gives a discount. And collectors (like me) will never buy a horn what is converted with a leadpipe or a bell from an other maker, because it is not genuine.
Do You have any idea, why the prices are so high?

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11 juli 2008 19:18 #135 by Olivia Queathem
Replied by Olivia Queathem on topic Used Instruments
Hi,
It depends on the quality of the instrument, I guess, and also whether it's used or not. I am a really serious student, so my parents had no qualms about buying me a horn last year when we inherited enough money to pay for one. I live in the USA; I don't know how our money/prices compare to others... My horn cost 3,000 American dollars. It was a used Conn 8D, old, but it has a GORGEOUS sound. I love it, and I think it was definitely worth the money. Some places are more reliable than others to buy from, too - you might not always get your money's worth. I've seen a website that was selling single horns from 5 to 7 thousand dollars, double horns for more than that, and the TRIPLE horns were up over $10,000! I got really lucky. (I bought my horn off hornplayer.net.) Some brands are better than others... I guess there's no clear-cut reason as to why horns are so expensive. I've seen one in a Salvation Army store for only $150, but it wasn't very good. There are probably other really cheap horns some places. Some good-quality horns are sold for lots of money and are worth every penny, and some people try to sell really awful horns for the same price. I say, some of those more expensive horns really are worth it, actually; just be careful what you buy.
I hope this wasn't too vague. Hopefully it helped a little.
Good horn playing! :lol:

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11 juli 2008 22:46 #136 by Martin Künkler
Replied by Martin Künkler on topic Used Instruments
Dear Olivia,

of course, some brands are better in quality than otherones and very cheap horns, e.g. a new Bb-Horn for 300 € (450 $) whats made in China never will be a good Horn. But it is unintelligible, if a 30 year old instrument, top quality and condition of course, is more expensiv than the half of its actually price! I dont speak about collecters models!! I mean standard horns. Last year I sold a 25 year old Knopf compensating double with E-/A-Stopvalve in goldbrass, screwbell, laquered, case, in a top condition for 1500 € (2000 $). Thats a realistic price. But some dealers offer those horns for more than 3000 € (4500 $)!! Do You think, thats ok?! No, it isnt! It is outrageous! No matter how good the horn is! An other example: I am a collector of 5-valved Bb-horns. Four years ago a bought a new one handmade by Ricco Kühn, goldbrass, screwbell, some custom works (no extra costs!), three bells, an additional mainslide for A-pitch, incl. case and MB-gigbag for 5000 €. If I think to sell it when it will be ten years old, I can not expect more than the half of its newprice. And thats realistic. A 30 year old Bb-horn, 4- or 5-valved (top condition) you can not offer for more than 1000 € (1500 $) in Germany. No one will pay it! The problem is, that a lot of people (alas, musicians included) have no ideas about realistc prices and they are willing, to pay to much or they pay the name of the brand. In my eyes, its impertinent. A lot of parents are not rich and if they are willing to buy a horn for the kids and they collect money for it, they have a right of a realistc price! Its not correct, that people will "pull over the table" like we say in Germany (that means, they will be cheated), because some sellers have unrealistic priceideas. E.g. a single Bb-horn: Its better, to buy a new Yamaha 322 II for 1500 € (2250 $) than an old Mönnig, Alex, Knopf or whatever for the same money! Then you bought a new and very good horn for your money and not an old pot, whats complete overpriced!

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12 juli 2008 01:22 #137 by Patrick Rappleye
Replied by Patrick Rappleye on topic Used Instruments
I cannot speak for horn prices in Europe, but the high cost in the United States is due to the high demand for quality instruments. I am currently playing a 1926 C. F. Schmidt and paid $4500 for it. I feel like that was a good deal even though the horn needed a bit of work. There are 800+ Americans that graduate with a degree in horn every year. Although not all of them pursue a professional career, there is a large amount of people seeking professional quality horns with limited supply. There is often a two to 4 year wait to get a custom horn. People will spend more money on a used horn just so they don't have to wait. The quality of some factory made horns has gone down recently also making older horns more desirable. There are a lot of bad horns on the market too, making it important to get a horn from a reputable source which may raise the selling price. Most of all, the value of the dollar has had the biggest effect on the cost of a horn. Most horn parts are made in Germany and now cost more to get in America. Competition with foreign buyers with more purchasing power also drives the price up. I have seen the prices skyrocket in the last 5 years ($15500 for a triple!). Eventually, I think the market will even out, but until then, I think Americans will just have to stick it out and make sure they shop around for the best deal.

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12 juli 2008 05:37 #139 by Martin Künkler
Replied by Martin Künkler on topic Used Instruments
Dear Patrick,

thats all correct! There are a lot of horns what are not good, specially the factory ones!
Of course, I always spoke about high quality horns. Who likes to buy a bad one? And the german-made parts are expensive in the states in cause of the strong Euro. In past times, it was reversed, the Dollar was strong. Old horns often have a better quality than a lot of modern factoryhorns, thats true. You said, that you had paid 4500 $ for a 1926 C.F. Schmidt. Thats not expensiv, because such an "honored Gentleman" in fact is an other case! I spoke about simple horns, tools of daily use in good quality and condition, used, but not interesting for collectors. Clearly said: Some sellers wanna have more then the double of the old newprice! Thats a bad stripping of the costumers moneyclip. Nothing more! Its not a question of quality or brand! Ok, if a customer pay such a skyrocket price, he is in blame for it. In Germay, too, many sellers have priceideas out of reality. But they will not sell it. No one will pay it.

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16 juli 2008 17:59 #143 by Amelia Carpenter
Replied by Amelia Carpenter on topic Used Instruments
:cheer: Hi everyone! I think I lucked out 20yrs ago when a friend of my moms had a horn stored in her attic. It was a Holton Farkas 178 and I paid $500 for it. It was practically brand new and I have been playing it ever since. i don't think I could afford almost $4500 to replace it if i had to so that is why i have it insured for at least $5000.I have played other horns- newer ones older ones and the one thing that made a big change in my playing for the better was a new mouthpiece. I can definitely sympathize with the price of horns increasing- but think of it as an investment- in something you love.

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